Talk:Generation Jones

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject Sociology (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 


External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Generation Jones. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

As of February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{sourcecheck}} (last update: 15 July 2018).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:34, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

People, not terms or cohorts[edit]

Inline with some of the discussion at Talk:Xennials, we should also refer to Generation Jones as "people" rather than "a term" or "a demograptic cohort." - Scarpy (talk) 01:56, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@Scarpy: I agree; please see reference in new section below. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:01, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Oh...I'd be ok with "cohort". --Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:02, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

@2606:6000:6111:8e00:d152:7f46:a25f:d936: I see you reverted these changes.[1] So we had a discussion about term vs people, and you may want to check the bit about references in MOS:LEAD. - Scarpy (talk) 02:34, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

= Use of "term" in the lede[edit]

This is not good writing. The concept of Generation Jones is a demographic cohort. This is repeatedly stated in the first reference (as of this writing). A quote from the source:
"Though not yet in common parlance, Generation Jones has had a good deal of traction in marketing, particularly since it encompasses some 50 million Americans. For instance, an IBM Global Business Services report notes that Jonesers began the turn to consumption, take technology for granted, and are more willing than boomers to "co-create" new products. They came of age with the Apple Macintosh.

It has also become established as a political demographic, defining a new cohort of European politicians such as Angela Merkel (b. 1954) and Nicolas Sarkozy (b. 1955), as well as those in the United States, among them many of Obama's advisers..." Kolya Butternut (talk) 01:57, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Some of this may be true, but the term is NOT widely used anywhere, why give it more prominence than is actually true? Try searching Google for Generation Jones. When is the last time you heard someone talk about Generation Jones? And by the way Angela Merkel is a Baby Boomer. Would she refer to herself as a Joneser? C'mon that's ridiculous. P.S. I just searched Google news for Angela Merkel and Generation Jones and there is not a single article that connects the two terms (under news). We should not mislead readers. 2606:6000:6111:8E00:D152:7F46:A25F:D936 (talk) 02:21, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
I don't understand what you're saying. Generation Jones is an obscure concept, for sure. Obscure concepts still have definitions...the concept is that it is a demographic cohort. Calling it what it is doesn't make it more significant or give it more prominence. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:29, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Hey, I just want to make sure that you're not editing under two diff accounts Kolya Butternut and Scarpy because a lot of the edits are similar. Just checking, thanks. 2606:6000:6111:8E00:D152:7F46:A25F:D936 (talk) 02:40, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Nope, different people. It would be helpful if you logged in with an account. It can give the appearance that you are editing under more than one account. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:45, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
This article was created in 2004, 15 years ago. Here's what it said in the lede sentence then: "Generation Jones, according to American social scientist Jonathan Pontell, includes all Americans born from 1954 through 1965, all inclusive."

Jonathan Pontell is a nobody who tried to sell books and ideas. The Baby Boom covers the years 1946-1964, and there is NO ambiguity about it. This article should go.

That sentence is how it's been described for over 15 solid years.

There is no such thing as "generation Jones." It is a made-up idea by a know-nothing to try to section off the Baby Boomers. The Baby Boom generation is an official designation by the United States Census, the only such generation so designated. The Baby Boom generation covers the years 1946-1964. There is no point to this bogus article. SN 13 March 2020

So, there's nothing about a "demographic cohort". Your recent change, calling it a demographic cohort, is way late in the game. There isn't any old or new research that all of a sudden proclaims they are an official cohort in social science. The other mainline generations however do that, for ex. the U.S. Census recognizes the Baby Boomers (but not Jones). Your thoughts? 2606:6000:6111:8E00:D152:7F46:A25F:D936 (talk) 03:08, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
Different people. Feel free to check with WP:SPI if you'd like. You didn't respond to Koyla's request about creating an account. - Scarpy (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
There's no edit war going on, so it's fine. I'm editing under an IP address. Not challenging or reverting anybody's stuff over and over again. And we're using the talk page to work it out correct? Can you address the status quo issue with the lede too please?2606:6000:6111:8E00:D152:7F46:A25F:D936 (talk) 03:14, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
The lead sentence still uses the word "cohort," so how about adding back in the word demographic? Pontell is a social scientists; he has researched this demographic cohort, not that research is necessary to establish a demographic cohort. "Hipsters" can be a demographic cohort if you're doing a survey to see how many of them have kids. [2] Kolya Butternut (talk) 04:48, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
I support the recently edited version from User:Scarpy [3] which avoids both "term" and "cohort" DynaGirl (talk) 04:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
How is that better than "demographic cohort?" It's less descriptive. Isn't it true that you just don't want the words "demographic cohort" because you feel like that makes it sound more significant and official than you feel that it is? What is your understanding of those words? The only reason "group of people" is suggested is because you're being coercive. Cite sources to show what "demographic cohort" means. Kolya Butternut (talk) 06:58, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

US only?[edit]

I'd never heard of GenerationJones before stumbling across this article. Is it a United States thing only? If so, maybe this should be noted in the lead. Silas Stoat (talk) 23:25, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Probably, just have to find the info in the references and write it in the body first. The 2606 IPs have been blocked, so hopefully there shouldn't be any resistance. Kolya Butternut (talk) 01:08, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Tweener is not a term which has any significant usage as a synonym for Generation Jones[edit]

I've heard this cohort between the Boomers and X'ers referred to as Generation Jones many times, but never as Tweeners. Out of curiosity, I just spent some time researching this today, and found that my experience with this is matched by the research. The term Generation Jones has been used many hundreds (maybe thousands?) of times across a large number of major media outlets, including The New York Times, Newsweek, Washington Post, Time Magazine, Associated Press, NBC, CNN, etc. Many notable individuals have used this term Generation Jones as well, including numerous major business, political, and entertainment figures. Moreover, many online dictionaries include the term Generation Jones to describe this cohort between Boom and X.

By contrast, the term "Tweeners" has hardly ever been used for this cohort. There are a few usages in very minor media publications, like small blogs, but no serious usage anywhere that I could find: in the media, among prominent individuals, or anywhere else. Many online dictionaries include the word "Tweener" but not with this meaning. Instead, they define Tweener to mean other things, like young people between childhood and adolescence, players who are in between two different positions in a sport, people who feel in between two different cultures, etc. None of these Tweener definitions in dictionaries, with one minor exception, make any reference to Boomers/X'ers. Even the website tweeners.org doesn't define it that way. And looking back over the many years of contributions to this Generation Jones Wikipedia articles, I couldn't find anybody, except Scarpy now, who has ever suggested that the term "Tweener" should be used as a synonym for Generation Jones.

Scarpy, I assume you come from a place of good faith, and care about accuracy in Wikipedia articles. From what I've seen of your contributions to Wikipedia, you seem like a serious contributor who has made numerous helpful and accurate edits. If you believe I'm wrong vis-a-vis my above research, please cite references in this Talk section that would back up the idea that "Tweener" has been used as a synonym for Generation Jones enough in the public to warrant that positioning in this Wiki article. Otherwise, I respectfully submit to you that it should not be included in this article. It's not accurate to use it here, and it creates confusion in relation to the ways that the term Tweener is actually used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CultureMaven2000 (talk • contribs) 22:59, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Generation_Jones&oldid=945452563"